WNY SCCA Message Board

Racing => Solo (Autocross) => Topic started by: JimPerrin on March 14, 2012, 09:32:12 am

Title: New Classing Structure for 2012
Post by: JimPerrin on March 14, 2012, 09:32:12 am
In the 2012 Supps, I outlined the new classing structure for this season.  Here is the section from the supps:

Quote
Classes    
Car classification is the responsibility of the competitor. Assistance is available at Technical Inspection or at the registration table, but not in the timing van.
   
Current SCCA National classing will be used, but grouped into index classes, based on current PAX values:

The following classes will only allow a tire with 140 treadwear rating or higher:
Stock (SS,AS,BS,CS,DS,ES,FS,GS,HS)
Street Prepared (SSP, ASP, BSP, CSP, DSP, ESP, FSP)
Street Touring (STF, STC, STS, STR, STX, STU)
Novice (ALL CLASSES)

The following classes will allow the use of any tire allowed by class rules:
Prepared/Modified (XP, BP, CP, DP, EP, FP, GP, AM, BM, CM, DM, EM, FM, KM, FSAE)
Street Modified (SM, SMF, SSM)
Karts (JA, JB, JC)
Pro (ALL CLASSES)
   
Classes will be run per SCCA National Solo Rules except:

Pro Class:
The Pro Class will be an indexed class.  It is intended to be a class for top level competition.  There will be no requirements for entry, and no compulsory inclusion, however, a car in the Stock or Street Prepared class on R-compound tires will be required to run in Pro, or its appropriate Prepared/Modified class.

Ladies Class:
There will be no ladies class.

Novice Class:
The Novice class will be for those competitors that are starting out. We don’t anticipate instituting hard and fast rules about what constitutes a “novice,” but we will reserve the right to “graduate” a competitor that regularly wins in Novice for an extended period of time. R-compound tires are not allowed.

Bumped Class:
All single car classes will be bumped to “bump class”, which will run as an indexed class. Drivers will continue to accumulate points for their respective classes. If there is only one single car class, it will be bumped according to the rulebook.


Jr. Driver Classes:
Formula Jr. classes will be indexed as “Karts”.  [See rule book for full details.]  Any adults driving a Jr. Kart MUST run in KM.

So basically, what this means is that if you are on R Compound tires, you'll be running in SM, P, M, or Pro, even if you are driving a Stock classed car.  There is no more "Road Tire" class. All eligible cars on street tires will run in an indexed class based on their prep level.

The reason for this: RT accounted for a large portion of attendance.  However, the PAX used for RT wasn't fair by any stretch.  An HS car had a distinct advantage over an SM car when on street tires.  So, in accordance with the new National rules for Stock Street Tire classes, I decided to make bump classes based on prep levels.  This *should* somewhat even out the competition, and allow for some better match ups.  This is by no means intended to be the perfect solution, and there is bound to be someone out there that will not like it.  I took the results from last season and redistributed them according to this classing structure.  The end result looked right to me, so I think it should be fair.

So, if you have some feedback, or you have any questions, please let me know.  I'm interested to hear it.
Title: Re: New Classing Structure for 2012
Post by: Dave D on March 14, 2012, 12:03:14 pm
Jim,
I'm confused, the site has 2 documents one says the bumped class is deleted the other says its not. Which is it going to be?

Dave
Title: Re: New Classing Structure for 2012
Post by: JimPerrin on March 14, 2012, 12:22:20 pm
Sorry about that - I copied it from the PDF that is listed under the "Rules and Supps" section on the site, which includes some strike throughs for the rule changes from last season.  When I pasted it, it lost the formatting.  I have fixed it in the first post.
Title: Re: New Classing Structure for 2012
Post by: Scootin159 on March 14, 2012, 12:23:26 pm
I like the idea, interested to see how it goes before proposing something similar for our region
Title: Re: New Classing Structure for 2012
Post by: JimPerrin on March 14, 2012, 03:58:12 pm
Dave, to specifically address your question about the bump class:

I've decided to do away with the idea of the bump class in the hopes that this restructuring will no have any single car classes.  In the event that there is a single car class still, bumping will be according to the rule book.
Title: Re: New Classing Structure for 2012
Post by: dale on March 21, 2012, 10:39:29 am
I'm really surprised that this topic has not received much in the way of comments. Is there that little interest, or doesn't anybody read the site, or ????
Title: Re: New Classing Structure for 2012
Post by: JimPerrin on March 21, 2012, 10:46:53 am
I've always just assumed that no one looks at the site.  I guess all the effort redesigning it wasn't necessary?
Title: Re: New Classing Structure for 2012
Post by: fairgentleman Z on March 21, 2012, 02:36:16 pm
Ladies Class:
There will be no ladies class.

Wait are we saying Ladies are not allowed to run in WNY-SCCA?  Or are there provisions that they can run in their respective class (but obviously required to remove the "L" from their car and place it on their forehead).

 :P
Title: Re: New Classing Structure for 2012
Post by: amaptn2 on March 21, 2012, 06:04:47 pm
Maybe people just want to "Shut up and drive".
 :)
Mike (from the middle of no where)
Title: Re: New Classing Structure for 2012
Post by: JimPerrin on March 21, 2012, 09:26:50 pm
No, that can't possibly be it...
Title: Re: New Classing Structure for 2012
Post by: TOMstir62 on March 22, 2012, 08:48:44 pm
Looks promising to me.  Should help reduce the number of small uncompetitive classes and give everyone the chance to play in a bigger sandbox.

With the proliferation of classes both nationally and locally is there going to be any attempts to limit the alphabet soup currently showing up on each car? Any possibility of limiting the classing letters on each car to just the index class in which they compete? For example, all entrants competing in the stock index class would use the class letter 'S' and would be differentiated solely by their number.  This would help reduce cone call miss communication during events and make it slightly easier for the timing workers.
Title: Re: New Classing Structure for 2012
Post by: JimPerrin on March 22, 2012, 08:50:36 pm
I wasn't intending on the classes competing RAW, so they'd have to retain their regular class for indexing purposes.
Title: Re: New Classing Structure for 2012
Post by: TOMstir62 on March 22, 2012, 09:53:42 pm
They would clearly still be indexed but can't the software keep track of the individual class information separately?
Title: Re: New Classing Structure for 2012
Post by: JimPerrin on March 22, 2012, 09:54:44 pm
Aren't you a timing chief too?  Can't you answer that question?  (Hint: answer is no)
Title: Re: New Classing Structure for 2012
Post by: TOMstir62 on March 22, 2012, 10:11:53 pm
Haha indeed.  I guess i imagined the option of assigning unique car numbers per pax class
Title: Re: New Classing Structure for 2012
Post by: JimPerrin on March 22, 2012, 10:13:04 pm
You *could* do that, but you could never guarantee that everyone will do what they are supposed to, and you will have a bunch of people with established number which conflict.
Title: Re: New Classing Structure for 2012
Post by: brucejones on March 22, 2012, 10:35:14 pm
The concept has great merit Jim.  Thanks for doing a ton of work on it.  In the end not everyone likes something and it is  inevitably imperfect.  WNY has for many years dared to experiment and tries hard to make things better.  You are part of the solution!  BTW we don't need more classes we need more drivers.
Title: Re: New Classing Structure for 2012
Post by: mistrtwo on March 22, 2012, 10:36:15 pm
I'm really surprised that this topic has not received much in the way of comments. Is there that little interest, or doesn't anybody read the site, or ????
I like to sit and watch everyone else ;D. But seriously I like the new setup.
Title: Re: New Classing Structure for 2012
Post by: brucejones on March 22, 2012, 10:39:22 pm
I like to watch too Carl.  Especially the hard chargers.  Hey any chance that the WNY gurus could put on a WNY regional version of an EVO school?  I think that we have at least 5-6 well qualified instructors..
Title: Re: New Classing Structure for 2012
Post by: brucejones on March 22, 2012, 10:41:49 pm
One final thought:  All of my friends drive cars.  My best friends drive them well!  Good night all.
Title: Re: New Classing Structure for 2012
Post by: conevadr on March 22, 2012, 11:00:24 pm
I'm glad to see that FLR and WNY are staying more or less in sync on this.  No rush for an answer, but do we know what the index identifier is for each of the new classes? 

George M (was RCS91, now ?CS91 & RTR91)
Title: Re: New Classing Structure for 2012
Post by: JimPerrin on March 22, 2012, 11:01:36 pm
Just run your regular class and I'll take care of the indexing on the computer.
Title: Re: New Classing Structure for 2012
Post by: JimPerrin on March 23, 2012, 08:10:53 am
I only ask that if you are running Pro or Novice, to include the P or N. 
Title: Re: New Classing Structure for 2012
Post by: 99_civic_si on March 23, 2012, 07:55:41 pm
MeLikes!  Hopefully the stock r-comp using ringers will jump to pro if they haven't already and it will attract n00bs and intermediates more.  For the most part nothing will effectively change with how most people ran last season, and it should be more appealing to some peoples eyes on paper.
Title: Re: New Classing Structure for 2012
Post by: JayS on March 26, 2012, 11:01:58 am
Hey, speaking of classing. Where do I end up in the 05 GTO with just lowering springs? Running street tires as usual.
Title: Re: New Classing Structure for 2012
Post by: JimPerrin on March 26, 2012, 11:04:54 am
Stock GTO -> FS
w/springs -> STU, ESP, SM?

I'd probably go with STU.
Title: Re: New Classing Structure for 2012
Post by: wrx26509 on April 05, 2012, 12:30:01 am
I have a wrx with 17x8 wheels (stock is 17x7 or 7.5) but with the stock 225 -45 r17 tire, and a catback exhaust. Last year I ran NDS, would this still be the same? and also what change in class would a tune require.

Thanks
Title: Re: New Classing Structure for 2012
Post by: JayS on April 05, 2012, 08:06:58 am
Have any of you ever looked at NASA's vehicle classing system? Their's seems far superior to SCCA's. I'm guessing moving toward a system that doesn't force people with a few minor mods to jump into classes where the cars have every mod allowed by that class would do wonders for participation numbers. Pretty sure the guy who just posted with nothing but a tune will end up in SM going against some majorly prepped vehicles. Under NASA rules as long as his tune used 100% of the OEM ECU it's not even considered a mod.

"43) OEM ECU/PCM reprogramming or chip (must use OEM ECU/PCM box/housing/hardware) "

http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/nasa-x/NASA-X_Classes.pdf
Title: Re: New Classing Structure for 2012
Post by: JimPerrin on April 05, 2012, 08:16:48 am
But a stock wrx's power delivery is terrible.  Once you put a stage 2 tune on it, it IS a different car and deserves to be reclassed.

wrx26509 - I wrote a classing guide specifically for subarus over at buffaloscooby.com:  http://www.buffaloscooby.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15096
Title: Re: New Classing Structure for 2012
Post by: fairgentleman Z on April 05, 2012, 12:38:24 pm
The NASA system is still going to reward the person that does the fewest mods and puts on Hoosiers at the widest width possible to avoid going over 20 points.

And that is still going to be frustrating to anyone else not doing the same.
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